In this thread, we discuss horsies and unicorns.

[Triple Hammer]

Ok, putting aside the unpleasant confrontation with that donkey-raping mega-twat Ben Hundley you guys had a while ago, let's take a look at Lit Fuse Films. I just recently saw some of their work, and I have some thoughts. The voice-acting is...well, ok, I guess. They don't do a very good job of developing characters, writing jokes, or even putting together a decent plot. I watched Combine Nation, and what I guess are supposed to be jokes just were not very funny. The music is mediocre at best, and at times is really annoying. I remember thinking, "What the hell is this?" After every video from them I've watched, that thought pops in my head.

I quote the Nostalgia Critic. "Not funny...plus not funny...EQUALS NOT F*CKING FUNNY!!!" With a team that focuses so much on visual effects, you'd think that THAT would at least catch attention, but even that fails to do so. In conclusion: if you've never seen their videos, you're not missing much. But that's just my opinion.

BTW...I find it funny as hell that Hundley "criticized" Spriggs when A) he only knows visual effects, and B) his group's videos just can't compare.

[The Eva Monkey]

You're comparing two radically different groups here dude.

Lit Fuse is much more technically oriented. More more geared towards filmmaking.

With Spriggs, we've been more comedy/story oriented. More geared towards making videos.

Lit Fuse has some very good production value, and some of the expressiveness and performance shown in works like Jill's Song are quite impressive. And I think Ignis Solis is one of the best works of Machinima I've seen. Their music, effects, and production value in general have always impressed me, and the only problem with their work is that it's too advanced for the vast mainstream of machinima viewers. They count their video views in thousands. We count our video views in millions. This is not an indication of quality, it just means that we have appeal. Not to mention that they have never to my knowledge shared their videos with Machinima.com. If you don't think their videos are funny, then I imagine their type of humor doesn't appeal to you. I will say that I'm impressed that their works are experimental in a variety of ways, and they've tackled both serious works, and comedic works. They're a talented group of guys. I do recommend people check out their work at some point.

[orion crown1]

All i really have to say is that the camera work and editing are amazing.

[Triple Hammer]

You're comparing two radically different groups here dude.

Lit Fuse is much more technically oriented. More more geared towards filmmaking.

With Spriggs, we've been more comedy/story oriented. More geared towards making videos.

Lit Fuse has some very good production value, and some of the expressiveness and performance shown in works like Jill's Song are quite impressive. And I think Ignis Solis is one of the best works of Machinima I've seen. Their music, effects, and production value in general have always impressed me, and the only problem with their work is that it's too advanced for the vast mainstream of machinima viewers. They count their video views in thousands. We count our video views in millions. This is not an indication of quality, it just means that we have appeal. Not to mention that they have never to my knowledge shared their videos with Machinima.com. If you don't think their videos are funny, then I imagine their type of humor doesn't appeal to you. I will say that I'm impressed that their works are experimental in a variety of ways, and they've tackled both serious works, and comedic works. They're a talented group of guys. I do recommend people check out their work at some point.

I respect your opinion, but honestly, I wasn't that impressed with Ignis Solis. Yeah, from a technical standpoint it's good, but to me, that's like saying any movie that has great special effects (Resident Evil Apocalypse, for instance, which wasn't horrible, but certainly wasn't that great either) is a good movie. I prefer something with a good storyline, good script, and a good group of voice actors. If a machinima (or any other form of entertainment) has that, then immediately it has my attention. I'm sorry, but to me, Lit Fuse doesn't have any of that.

[Triple M]

Aaron is merely pointing out that we are groups that are judged by different scales.

Admittedly, in some way we want to be more like them. More experimental, more technical.

But in turn, that rant hugely negative rant revealed that, secretly, they want to be like us. They want to have the popular side, where a vid can get a million hits or regularly get 15k in a period of two weeks.

[zachscott]

Bummers, sorry we couldn't appeal to you. your 15 minutes will be mailed back to you shortly.

I am trying to find a respectful way to respond to you (triple hammer), so instead I'll address eva. Thanks for the kind words eva, and I hope that you do not still feel angry at myself or ben for that flamey thread almost a year ago. I hope that you have not allowed that to fester or ferment like this other guy has. I unfortunately do not have many kind words for spriggs, but I will at least try to be respectful enough to not bust up in here and stir up shit on your home turf. Please do not take any responses by myself that may unfold during the course of this thread, as knocks against spriggs or the spriggs crew specifically, as they are not intended as such.

Triple hammer, Eva is correct in saying that you are comparing two radically different groups. Since you seem determined to bring up view count and relative humor, I'll address those first. The discrepencies in both humor and view count can both be attributed to this fact. The simple fact is that halo fans are not half life fans, and half life fans are not halo fans. for as many spriggs fans don't appreciate our films, I can point to an equal number of lit fuse fans that don't appreciate spriggs ( or insert halo series here ). Additionally fans tend to lock in on films made in their preferred game, regardless of what quality or storyline is presented. a halo fan will always be more lenient on halo films, and a half life fan will be more lenient on half life films. as you may be aware, there are quite a few halo fans out there. millions, so halo machinima is already pitching to a pre-installed audience. It's pretty crazy when you think about it. that a show like arby and the chief can pull in more viewers than spriggs, or that a show like spriggs can pull in more viewers than say abyssus, which has under a thousand vews ( http://vimeo.com/4099214 ) [ and yes, abyssus is machinima by definition ]. It turns out that generally, the public doesn't care too much about production values, because they're pretty rare. Personally I care very much about production value, it's a matter of personal pride and that is why I hold myself to the standards that I do for production value. However, I have not ever professed to be a strong writer [ I say me because I wrote each of the pieces mentioned in this thead ], I don't want' to be a strong writer. I want to be a strong filmaker and as such that is what I pursue. for me, Machinima was never an avenue to tell the greatest stories ever written, or the funniest jokes. it was and remains to be, an instrument by which I can push personal boundaries, as well as affect SOME kind of impact on the community, large or small. Using the term "community" though does not really apply, it's a broad term that implies some sort of unity, but really there is no such thing. there are instead several different communities, a community of second life creators that think second life is the best, a community that hates derivative works, a community of people who will only watch sims movies or music videos. In this case, it happens to be that the halo community is quite a bit larger than the source community. additionally, as eva has mentioned, Lit fuse has never entered into a partnership with machinima.com. I do not know if Spriggs is still in such a relationship with that site, but I understand that at one point they were (?). It's foolish to say that a machinima on that site really earns the viewers that it gets. you can look at any machinima.com youtube post, and it will almost always have at least 50,000 views, if not closer to a million. A big part of those views come directly from machinima.com subscribers, which at last count, I believe numbers in the millions. Lit fuse has only a couple thousand subscribers, and has been mostly inactive for more than 10 months now, so to compare viewcounts as an absolute indication of success is an inaccurate way to argue. if lit fuse wanted to pull those numbers of views down, it would not be an impossible feat, and we would do it without the aid of machinima.com. but as I mentioned, lit fuse is not out for money ( we already have that ) and we are not out for fame ( we've been there and it's overrated ), we're not out for critical acclaim from the machinima audience, since as I've proven, they really couldn't care less about production value. we're just out to exist. HOWEVER, regarding that comment you made about lars's music. Fuck you, lars is amazing.

sorry for the wall of text, I am bored and didnt' realize that I was typing so much. again spriggs dudes, no harm intended.

[zachscott]

Aaron is merely pointing out that we are groups that are judged by different scales.

Admittedly, in some way we want to be more like them. More experimental, more technical.

But in turn, that rant hugely negative rant revealed that, secretly, they want to be like us. They want to have the popular side, where a vid can get a million hits or regularly get 15k in a period of two weeks.

Augh farts! you snuck that in there. anyway I'm going to be completely honest here and say that you're A) reading too much into the old rant from a while back, that was the product of boredom and incredulity at a number of halo series, spriggs just happened to be the one whose forums we found first. and B) making the flawed argument that (1) views are an indication of success, and (2) assuming we have never seen high viewcounts on our films. but trust me, we do not want popular on our side, it's not a priority, otherwise we would pursue it. But we have long since stopped making hard publicity pushes, because as mentioned in the above post of mine, publicity isn't the goal for us, it's quality.

woah, that's alot of commas.

[The Eva Monkey]

Thanks for the kind words eva, and I hope that you do not still feel angry at myself or ben for that flamey thread almost a year ago. I hope that you have not allowed that to fester or ferment like this other guy has.

My problem with Ben was that he was purposely being a troll (internet douche). My problem with you was that a lot of what you were saying was uninformed, and invalidated some legitimate points I wanted to ignore. But that was like a year ago, and a year on the internet is like a decade. I don't care anymore. Although I am disappointed you wouldn't chat and kill things in Halo with me. ASSHOLE.

I can point to an equal number of lit fuse fans that don't appreciate spriggs ( or insert halo series here ). Additionally fans tend to lock in on films made in their preferred game, regardless of what quality or storyline is presented. a halo fan will always be more lenient on halo films, and a half life fan will be more lenient on half life films.

I have the same problem with Leetworld, I'm just not into Counter Strike.

a community of second life creators that think second life is the best

OH LAWD.

...a partnership with machinima.com. I do not know if Spriggs is still in such a relationship with that site, but I understand that at one point they were (?).

We were, we aren't anymore, and we never signed a contract.

to compare viewcounts as an absolute indication of success is an inaccurate way to argue.

No. In the world we live in, all the matters in the end is what puts more bread in your mouth, and more bling on your wrist. MONEY. We haven't made any, although a few things are materializing that might lead us in that direction. If not, we're learning a bit about media production that will help some of us in the future.

HOWEVER, regarding that comment you made about lars's music. Fuck you, lars is amazing.

Which reminds me, I really ought to buy that song from Ignis Solis.

But in turn, that rant hugely negative rant revealed that, secretly, they want to be like us. They want to have the popular side, where a vid can get a million hits or regularly get 15k in a period of two weeks.

...making the flawed argument that (1) views are an indication of success, and (2) assuming we have never seen high viewcounts on our films. but trust me, we do not want popular on our side, it's not a priority, otherwise we would pursue it. But we have long since stopped making hard publicity pushes, because as mentioned in the above post of mine, publicity isn't the goal for us, it's quality.

Yeah... otherwise you would MAKE MORE COMBINE NATION.

It should also be stated that quality and success don't correlate. Case examples: The Fountain (Awesome movie, tanked at the box office); Epic Movie (steaming shit, made lots of money). The whole "they're jealous" thing would only apply if you guys had a Halo 3 series that no one gave a shit about. You guys are smart enough to know that if you want views that you need to give people more of what THEY want, as opposed to what you WANT. Moreover, I'm smart enough to know that you know that. And the fact that you guys do what you want to do, as opposed to what everyone else would want you to do is something I can respect. If anything, you're just frustrated that people won't venture outside of their interests and comfort zones. That's a fact that we're not looking forward to with the Fallout 3 Machinima. It's bound to alienate at least half of our subscriber base.

[The Eva Monkey]

BYTHEWAY. Eddy says you're a homo.

Also: DICKS.

[zachscott]

BYTHEWAY. Eddy says you're a homo.

Also: DICKS.

I AM SO OFFENDED BY THIS !

[The Eva Monkey]

I AM SO OFFENDED BY THIS !

I WOULD BE TOO, IF I WERE OF THE HOMO PERSUASION.

[Triple Hammer]

Look, zachscott, I'm not trying to start anything. I don't mean to be disrespectful, and I really am sorry for starting this thread. It wasn't my intention to flame you or Lars. That comment I made about the music wasn't even totally true. I actually did like the music.

It's just...*sigh* It's been a really rough, emotional time for me lately. Some really, and I mean REALLY unfair things have happened to me in the last month, and I've been looking for ways to vent. My rant was not the appropriate way to do that, and I most profusely apologize. I guess I need to direct my anger and irritation more towards the people who have been giving me grief. Under different, ordinary circumstances, I would probably have watched your videos with a more open mind, and maybe if I watch it again when I've calmed down I'll see it differently. Once again, I'm really sorry. To you and everyone at LF, I'm as sorry as I've ever been. I've attacked someone who didn't deserve it. Is this the kind of person I've become? Someone who attacks others who aren't even the source of the problem? Fuck...FUCK...FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

[ThunderCavalier]

...

I'm sorry. Did the conversation just implode on itself?

[The Eva Monkey]

I guess I need to direct my anger and irritation more towards the people who have been giving me grief.

Or... you could direct it at Soulja Boy.

[Triple Hammer]

Ok...now that I've taken out some of my anger on a punching bag, let me clear a few things up.

1. I said in the first post that I had put aside what Ben had done. Granted, I called him a name, but I go after EVERYONE when I'm angry. He and Lit Fuse weren't the only ones I was insulting that day. I don't hate him, I don't have any festering or fermenting hate for him, I'm not even gonna mention him anymore. It's over.

2. To zachscott: What do you want me to say? That you're great? You can argue that you have lots of views, and high ratings, but to me, that doesn't mean shit. Lots of people have high ratings who don't deserve it. *cough* Fred *cough* I took the time to watch the videos, and I didn't think they were as great as everyone said. Granted, I was in a pissy mood when I did so, but even then, I wasn't about to form an opinion based on what people say; I had to watch the videos myself to form it. And you can argue all of your personal pride and blah blah blah, but I'm not gonna praise you when I don't feel like you deserve it. I'm not gonna lie to you and say, "Oh, your videos are great!" Even if it hurts people's feelings, I would rather hurt their feelings and be honest than give them false hope and lie. I will at least TRY to be honest whenever I can. And HERE'S my completely honest view of Lit Fuse Films: You're ok. You could use some work, but you're better than some.

3. I'm not normally this angry, sad, or pissy. I've just hit bad times. I'm sorry that it resulted in this, but I'm not sorry for speaking my mind. If I liked it, I would have gladly started a Lit Fuse Films thread that would've praised them.

4. I need to get away for a while and think things over. With everything happening, I think it'd be a good idea for me to temporarily leave and clear my head. Maybe I'll come back more calm and easy-going. So...good-bye for now.

[zachscott]

2. To zachscott: What do you want me to say? That you're great? You can argue that you have lots of views, and high ratings, but to me, that doesn't mean shit. Lots of people have high ratings who don't deserve it. *cough* Fred *cough* I took the time to watch the videos, and I didn't think they were as great as everyone said. Granted, I was in a pissy mood when I did so, but even then, I wasn't about to form an opinion based on what people say; I had to watch the videos myself to form it. And you can argue all of your personal pride and blah blah blah, but I'm not gonna praise you when I don't feel like you deserve it. I'm not gonna lie to you and say, "Oh, your videos are great!" Even if it hurts people's feelings, I would rather hurt their feelings and be honest than give them false hope and lie. I will at least TRY to be honest whenever I can. And HERE'S my completely honest view of Lit Fuse Films: You're ok. You could use some work, but you're better than some.

triple M was the one who brought up viewcounts in the first place, I believe I am the one who said they didn't mean shit, and only mentioned that we had them to remove them as a relevant point of comparison. as for addressing you specifically, I wasn't looking for praise, and most of my post was becuase hey, I haven't posted on any forum in a while and felt it was time to drop in and do a little posting. don't think that I was in any way hurt or riled by your words, and you shouldn't have to apologize for them , I was simply going ahead and defending myself, that doesn't mean that you are wrong for attacking. I also posted partly to try and clear the air with the spriggs dudes, as I know I offended them before.

[The Eva Monkey]

I also posted partly to try and clear the air with the spriggs dudes, as I know I offended them before.

As far as I'm concerned, it's been dead for a long time.

I think you owe me a round of two of something online though. =P

[DarkPOPS]

So everyone apologizes, everyone's happy. Everybody needs to let this die and start fresh.

[led371]

*Hands out cookies*

[The Eva Monkey]

*Hands out cookies*

OM NOM NOM NOM.

[orion crown1]

I would like to respectfuly disagree with the comment that halo fans are not half life fans and the other way around. I personaly like both, i have also never touched counterstrike and love the leet world. I am a huge fan of running gun and respect the style of lit fuse. It is in my opinion that you just have to learn to apreciate all of these,when i first looked at combine nation i was dumbfounded, however as i watched it i grew to apreciate it more. On a side note, what is your opinion on ross scott?

[zachscott]

well yeah I wasnt' saying it as a hard and fast rule but more of a generalizaiton.

ross scotts' a good dude. bit hard on luck though.

[orion crown1]

He probobaly has had the most delays of any still active machinimator. People think spriggs has long delays but it seems like the machinima gods have a vendeta for civil protection.

[MoltenSlowa]

Thread locked at request of OP.

What, you didn't think I was dead, did you?